Do We Need God to be Moral?

Do We Need God to be Moral? - One of the world's leading primatologists believes his decades of research with apes answers a question that has plagued humans since the beginning of time. 

Are we moral because we believe in God, or do we believe in God because we are moral?

 

ABC News - Do We Need God to be Moral? (ABC News) 

Frans de Waal argues in his latest book that the answer is clearly the latter. The seeds for moral behavior preceded the emergence of our species by millions of years, and the need to codify that behavior so that all would have a clear blueprint for morality led to the creation of religion, he argues. 

Most religious leaders would argue it's the other way around: Our sense of what's moral came from God, and without God there would be no morality. 

But this is a column about science, not religion, so it's worth asking if de Waal's own research supports his provocative conclusions, documented in the newly released book, "The Bonobo and the Atheist." 

Just the title answers one question: he is an atheist, although he disparages the efforts of other atheists to convince the public to abandon all beliefs in the supernatural. Religion serves its purpose, he argues, especially through the rituals and body of beliefs that help strengthen community bonds. 

De Waal is a biology professor at Emory University and director of the Living Links Center at the Yerkes Primate Center in Atlanta. He is widely regarded as one of the world's top experts on primatology, especially the sometimes violent chimpanzees and their fun-loving sexually obsessed cousins, the bonobos, sometimes called the forgotten apes because they have become so rare. 

Through years of research all over the world, de Waal has reached these basic conclusions: Chimps and bonobos and other primates clearly show empathy with others who are suffering. They have a sense of fairness, they take care of those in need, and they will share what they have with others who are less fortunate. 

Those and other human-like characteristics, that have been clearly documented by other researchers as well, at least show they have some grasp of morality. It doesn't mean they are moral -- especially chimps, which can be very violent -- but they have the "basic building blocks" for morality, de Waal argues. 

Chimps, he says, "are ready to kill their rivals. They sometimes kill humans, or bite off their face." So he says he is "reluctant to call a chimpanzee a 'moral being.'" 

"There is little evidence that other animals judge the appropriateness of actions that do not directly affect themselves," he writes. Yet, "In their behavior, we recognize the same values we pursue ourselves. 

"I take these hints of community concern as a sign that the building blocks of morality are older than humanity, and we don't need God to explain how we got to where we are today," he writes. 

Our sense of morality, he continues, comes from within, not from above. Many activities he has witnessed show that apes feel guilt and shame, which also suggest a sense of morality. Why should anyone feel guilty if they don't know the difference between right and wrong? 

For example, Lody, a bonobo in the Milwaukee County Zoo, bit the hand -- apparently accidentally -- of a veterinarian who was feeding him vitamin pills. 

"Hearing a crunching sound, Lody looked up, seemingly surprised, and released the hand minus a digit," de Waals writes. 

Days later the vet revisited the zoo and held up her bandaged left hand. Lody looked at the hand and retreated to a distant corner of the enclosure where he held his head down and wrapped his arms around himself, signs of both grief and guilt. 

And here's the amazing part. About 15 years later the vet returned to the zoo and was standing among a crowd of visitors when Lody recognized her and rushed over. He tried to see her left hand, which was hidden behind the railing. The vet lifted up her incomplete hand and Lody looked at it, then at the vet's face, then back at the hand again. 

Was he showing shame and grief? Or was it fear of a possible reprisal? The ape at least realized he had done something wrong, de Waal argues, showing the seeds of moral behavior. 

There are scores of other examples showing deep grief over a dying colleague and compassion for a mother ape that has lost her young and care for young apes that have lost their parents. All those things are signs of what we would call unmistakable morality, if the subjects were humans, not apes. 

"Some say animals are what they are, whereas our own species follows ideals, but this is easily proven wrong," de Waals writes. "Not because we don't have ideals, but because other species have them too." 

When an ape expresses grief or guilt or compassion he is living out the blueprint for survival in a culture that is becoming more complex, and possibly more dangerous. He is acting from within, not because he believes in God who defined right and wrong. De Waal puts it this way: 

"The moral law is not imposed from above or derived from well-reasoned principles; rather it arises from ingrained values that have been there since the beginning of time." 

He cites at least one instance when those "ingrained values" led to action among bonobos that seems like a divine solution to a nasty problem that confronts human society around the world. 

Bonobos, according to his research, know how to avoid war. 

Over and over he has seen neighboring bonobo colonies gather near a common border as the males prepare to do battle. Ape warfare can indeed be violent. But when the bonobos are ready to fight, the females often charge across the boundary and start making out with both genders on the other side. 

Pretty soon, the war has degenerated to what we humans would call an orgy, after which both sides are seen grooming each other and watching their children play. 

So an orgy is moral? Maybe these guys understand it really is better to make love, not war. ( abcnews.go.com )

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The terror plot involved targeting British reserve troops using a toy-car packed with explosives

4 UK men jailed for toy-car terror plot — The terror plot involved targeting British reserve troops using a toy-car packed with explosives. 

But investigators said Thursday Britain's domestic spy agency of MI5 and police were able to stop Zahid Iqbal, Mohammed Sharfaraz Ahmed, Umar Arshad and Syed Farhan Hussain before they could launch the deadly attack. 

Iqbal and Ahmed were given extended sentences of 16 years and 3 months, which means they will be in jail for more than 11 years and put on parole for the rest of the time. Arshad was sentenced to more than six years in jail, while Hussain received more than five years. 

 

This is an undated handout photo issued by London's Metropolitan Police of top row left to right, Zahid Iqbal, Mohammed Sharfaraz Ahmed and bottom row left to right Umar Arshad and Syed Farhan Hussain. The four men have been jailed in Britain for discussing plans to carry out a terrorist attack using homemade guns and bombs. they pleaded guilty in March to engaging in conduct in preparation for acts of terrorism. (AP Photo/Metropolitan Police)

The British men — aged between 22 and 31 — pleaded guilty in March to engaging in conduct in preparation for acts of terrorism. 

The four were arrested a year ago in the town of Luton, north of London, after an operation by police and the MI5. 

Prosecutors said the Britons downloaded files containing instructions for an attack, bought survival equipment and collected money for terrorist purposes. They also admitted "facilitating, planning and encouraging" overseas travel for terrorist purposes. 

The men were recorded discussing sending a remote-controlled toy car carrying a homemade bomb under the gates of an army reservist center in Luton and speaking of using instructions in an al-Qaida manual to make an improvised explosive device. 

"Using a toy-car as an explosive device may seem childish, but if they had succeeded in pulling this off, the consequences could have resulted in deaths and injuries, much like we have seen in recent days in Boston," said a British security official with knowledge of the investigation and who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to be named. 

The court heard that Iqbal had direct contacts with a Pakistani operative and helped Ahmed travel to Pakistan in 2011 for terror training. 

Prosecutors also said the men gained inspiration from the 2010 first issue of "Inspire," an online English-language magazine from Yemen's al-Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula and linked to the U.S.-born militant cleric Anwar al-Awlaki. The militant leader was killed in 2011 in a drone strike. 

The same online magazine gave instructions on how to build a "pressure cooker" bomb — the same type of explosive device that was used in Monday's attack at the Boston Marathon when three people were killed and more than 100 were wounded. ( Associated Press )

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Priceless 14th century Latin 'dictionary' that let nuns translate the Bible and survived the Dissolution of the Monasteries goes on display for the first time

Priceless 14th century Latin 'dictionary' that let nuns translate the Bible and survived the Dissolution of the Monasteries goes on display for the first time - History enthusiasts will be able to see Expositiones Vocabulorum Biblie - Priceless book helped nuns to understand the holy book centuries ago - It is incredibly rare because it survived Henry VIII's monastery purge

A priceless 700-year-old Bible 'dictionary' which gives a unique insight into the way nuns lived has gone on display for the first time.

The Expositiones Vocabulorum Biblie by the 12th century clergyman William Brito - sometimes known as Guillaume le Breton - is written entirely in Latin.

It is one of the few monastic documents which is still in its original location after surviving the Dissolution of the Monasteries under Henry VIII in the 1530s, where the monarch disbanded monasteries, priories, convents and friaries in England, Wales and Ireland, and seized their assets and income.

Artefact: A 14th century copy of an early Bible dictionary is one of very few monastic books to have survived the Dissolution of the Monasteries under Henry VIII in the 1530s

Many treasures were lost under Henry VIII's Dissolution of the Monasteries. The book has gone on display for the very first time and has been at the abbey for over 700 years

The hand written parchment book is thought to have helped nuns decipher parts of the Bible and contains explanations and the origins of difficult words.

It is now on display at Lacock Abbey, Wiltshire, where the nuns lived, after it was recently bought in an auction by the National Trust.

Sonia Jones, house and collections manager at Lacock, said the 14th century book gave an insight into how the nuns lived during their time in the abbey.

She said: 'We know little about the everyday lives of the nuns at Lacock Abbey.

Remnant: The book is a priceless survivor from the days when the nuns lived at Lacock Abbey in Wiltshre

Living history: The front cover of the 700-year-old hand written manuscript Bible dictionary

Written in Latin, it was part of the abbey library and even has earlier 13th century financial accounts of the abbey pasted into the binding

'This one book gives us a remarkable rare glimpse, a short glance into how they might have lived their lives.

'It tells us that they studied the Bible closely and most would have been literate.

'There is scrap parchment in the bindings which are part of the accounts of the abbey, recycled when the book was bound.

'Those fragments let us see just a little of some of the business side of the abbey, selling wool to provide an income.

'It is a special and important book, but to have it in Lacock and to be able to put it on display in the abbey, in its original home is simply priceless.'

Craftsmanship: A clasp mark on the book, which has a wooden cover

Treasure: The book was recently bought in an auction by the National Trust

It is also not known whether books such as the dictionary were ever written at Lacock or where this copy was laboriously hand written elsewhere.

The book was already known to the Trust and had passed down through generations of the Talbot family who lived at the abbey.

It was put up for sale and was bought by the National Trust at auction at Christie's.

Sanctuary: The alcove in which the Bible dictionary would have been kept at Lacock Abbey in Wiltshire ( dailymail.co.uk )

Blog : Luxurious | Priceless 14th century Latin 'dictionary' that let nuns translate the Bible and survived the Dissolution of the Monasteries goes on display for the first time

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Myanmar fire kills 13 Muslim students, adding to Buddhist-Muslim tensions

Myanmar fire kills 13 Muslim students, adding to Buddhist-Muslim tensions - Police are blaming the blaze in Yangon on an electrical short, but some of Myanmar's Muslims are suspicious following religious violence around the country.

Myanmar police say an electric fire is at fault for the blaze that killed 13 youth in an Islamic school in Yangon today. But on the heels of widespread religious and ethnic violence last month, some fear the deaths could add to the rising religious tensions in the Buddhist-majority country.

There have been no immediate reports of violence following the pre-dawn fire, but an estimated 200 people crowded around the school compound as security forces and riot police blocked the roads leading to the charred mosque. The fire broke out in the multi-ethnic neighborhood just before 3 a.m. local time, according to neighbors.

"The whole country is worried now for Yangon, and is wondering whether this was a crime," Ye Naung Thein, secretary of the Muslim organization Myanmar Mawlwy federation, told Agence France-Presse.

A teacher in the building told AFP he smelled petrol as he rushed to alert sleeping children of the blaze. But electrical problems are the frequent cause of fires in Yangon, Myanmar’s largest city and former capital, Reuters reports.

Last month, violence between Buddhists and Muslims erupted in the center of the country and quickly spread to 15 towns and villages before the government ordered a crackdown. The Associated Press reports that dozens of people were killed and more than 12,000 were displaced by the unrest in the central city of Meikhtila.

The violence, which has largely targeted Muslims, has since spread to several other towns where extremist Buddhist mobs have torched or ransacked mosques and Muslim-owned property.

The New York Times described the events in Meikhtila last week, painting a jarring picture of religious violence. It included accounts of complacent security officials, “saffron-robed monks with sticks and knives – hunting down Muslims and torching entire blocks, including at least five mosques, in Muslim neighborhoods,” and local Muslims stabbing to death a monk traveling between villages. The violence was spurred on by a petty argument between a Muslim jeweler and a Buddhist customer over a gold clip, the Times reports.

It took the government three days to declare a state of emergency and send in the army. That did stop the violence in Meiktila, but since then attacks against mosques and Muslims’ property have continued to spread across the country.

More than a week after the violence started, just this Thursday, President Thein Sein explained that government forces had been ordered not to intervene because he did not want to “risk any possible endangerment of our ongoing democratic transition and reform efforts.”

The Christian Science Monitor reported that last month’s violence “calls into question the stability of Myanmar’s nascent transition to democracy” after a semi-civilian government ended nearly 50 years of military rule in 2010.

Many international observers are concerned by the country's apparent lack of progress on improving minority rights.

"Governments are meant to guarantee rights, ensure that people are treated equally before the law, that nondiscrimination is the rule of the land, and that minorities have their rights protected," Phil Robertson of Human Rights Watch told The Monitor. "After seeing this [violence in Meikhtila], would anyone be confident in saying that the government is doing a good job?"

Eric Randolph, a security specialist, noted in Foreign Affairs early last month that governments around the globe may have reason to turn a blind eye to the ongoing ethnic violence.

Governments worldwide have strategic reasons to ignore the ongoing violence in Myanmar. China is concerned about conflict on its border but has about $14 billion of investments tied up in the country, including new oil and gas pipelines that are due to start operation in May. The United States’ primary goal, meanwhile, has been to ensure that Myanmar does not nuclearize, a pressing worry after reports emerged in 2010 that the country was trading technology with North Korea. The removal of sanctions and increased diplomatic exchanges are also factors in Obama’s pivot to Asia, while other countries are focused on the lucrative new marketplace that has suddenly appeared.

In its rush to capitalize on Myanmar’s tentative opening, the international community has given up much of its leverage over [President] Sein. It ought to remember that he is not vulnerable to a coup by hard-liners – he is the handpicked successor of Than Shwe, fulfilling a plan that was many years in the making – and that his government is desperate for foreign investment. Now is the time to press for clearer commitments to reconciliation and democracy, not for handing out peace awards.

Some witnesses in Yangon said the doors at the mosque in today’s incident may have been locked and windows barred for security purposes after the string of anti-Muslim attacks last month – though that violence largely avoided Yangon.

"These children were about 13 or 14 years old. They died because they couldn't jump out of the windows, which were closed by iron bars," Ye Naung Thein, a bystander, told Reuters.

A police officer on the scene repeatedly said the fire was caused by an electrical short, not malefic intent. But each time he noted the “electrical short,” “angry Muslims shouted and began banging on vehicles with their fists,” reports AP.

The fire department in Yangon said it would set up an investigative team to determine the ultimate source of the fire, and that the team will include representatives from the electric company, police, and Muslim groups, Reuters reports. ( Christian Science Monitor )

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Myanmar riots raise concerns about escalating sectarian tensions

Myanmar riots raise concerns about escalating sectarian tensions - The clashes have intensified fears that last year's sectarian violence between Buddhists and the Muslim Rohingya minority in western Burma is now spreading to the Burmese heartland.

Rights groups are asking Myanmar lawmakers to "change their approach" on how they handle sectarian violence after three days of fighting between Muslims and Buddhists in central Myanmar has reduced a town to smokey rubble, leaving at least 20 dead and forcing thousands to flee.

Today Myanmar’s President Thein Sein issued a state of emergency to quell violence in Meikhtila and four nearby towns in central Myanmar. But reports late on Friday indicated that though the violence has receded, the situation is still tense. The government is sending military backup for the police, who have not been able to stop the fighting.

The violence and need for military backup calls into question the stability of Myanmar's nascent transition to democracy after a semi-civilian government in 2010 ended nearly five decades of military rule. And the lack of improvement on improving minority rights has many observers up in arms.

"Governments are meant to guarantee rights, ensure that people are treated equally before the law, that nondiscrimination is the rule of the land, and that minorities have their rights protected," says says Phil Robertson of Human Rights Watch. "After seeing this [violence in Meikhtila], would anyone be confident in saying that the government is doing a good job?"

Led by reformist President Thein Sein, the country has undergone various economic and political reforms since its days under military rule – including the lifting of major censorship regulations and the release of many political prisoners – but it has also witnessed a growing tension between majority Buddhists and minority Muslims, who comprise roughly 5 percent of the total population of some 60 million.

The violence began Wednesday in Meikhtila, a town roughly 80 miles north of the capital Naypyidaw, after an argument between a Muslim shopkeeper and his Buddhist customers reportedly erupted and spiraled into a street brawl. Soon Buddhist mobs were roaming the streets with sticks and swords and setting buildings ablaze.

Many fear that the situation in Meikhtila could be a reprise of the type of violence not seen since last year in Rakhine state – which borders Bangladesh. Hundreds were killed and more than 100,000 left homeless after fighting broke out between Buddhists and Rohingya Muslims in June and October.

A stateless minority, the Rohingya are not recognized by either Bangladesh or Myanmar, and thousands of those living in Myanmar have fled to neighboring countries, often in rickety boats, for the promise of a better life abroad.

Exact numbers of those killed and injured since Wednesday in Meikhtila are still unknown, but the numbers range from 20 to more than 100.

Whatever the figure, say rights groups, the culture of impunity surrounding ethnic violence needs to end – and lawmakers like opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi, who has remained largely silent on how to the end ethnic violence racking the country in recent months, need to speak up.

"Staying silent is clearly not working, because in that vacuum, those who are inciting more violence are free to operate when they need to be challenged and tackled head on," says Mark Farmaner of rights group Burma Campaign UK.

"There needs to be a change of approach not just from Suu Kyi,” he says, “but from all the political and religious leaders in the country to acknowledge that there is this growing anti-Muslim feeling in the country."

Friday's state of emergency was issued the same day Thein Sein met with Google executive Chairman Eric Schmidt, visiting the country to encourage private investment in its telecommunications systems.

Mr. Schmidt told a crowd in Yangon that the Internet could help politicians "get a much better idea of what your citizens are thinking about" and that "the Internet, once in place, guarantees communication – and empowerment becomes the law and practice of your country."

But for many of those who feel they are being targeted indiscriminately for their ethnicity, that empowerment could seem very far away, says Mr. Robertson of Human Rights Watch. ( Christian Science Monitor )

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Myanmar Communal Unrest Threatens Reforms

Myanmar Communal Unrest Threatens Reforms - Few imagined Myanmar would embrace democracy when the U.S. began its historic engagement with the military regime. The country's rapid changes were lauded by visiting Western leaders, and the nation's president was hailed as a hero. But spasms of spreading, communal violence show the reform path is bumpier than expected and have taken the sheen off a foreign policy success of the Obama administration's first term.

While Washington says the country's overall direction is still positive, some experts worry Myanmar risks backsliding toward military rule that ended two years ago.

In the past two weeks, violence between Buddhists and Muslims has left dozens dead. Thousands of refugees of an earlier spate of sectarian bloodletting are fleeing on rickety boats. And in a key concern to U.S. policymakers, the country's murky military ties with North Korea continue.

Washington has been at the forefront of international efforts to encourage the country also known as Burma to open up to the world and ease controls on its 60 million people. Thursday marks the anniversary of the historic U.S. announcement that it was normalizing diplomatic relations — the first in a series of diplomatic rewards in response to reforms. That culminated in the suspension of economic sanctions and in November, the first visit to Myanmar by a U.S. president.

The benefits of reforms have been clear. President Thein Sein's government has released hundreds of political prisoners, eased restrictions on the press and freedom of assembly and brokered cease-fires with most of the nation's ethnic insurgencies. After years of house arrest, opposition leader Aung San Suu Kyi has been elected to parliament, which is performing its role with vigor.

But the rapid pace of change has also been accompanied by chaos, as ugly sectarian tensions have surfaced.

Human rights groups and a U.N. envoy have criticized the Myanmar government's failure to prevent attacks mostly on minority Muslims by majority Buddhists. Sectarian violence in western Rakhine state last year killed hundreds and drove more than 100,000 Rohingya Muslims from their homes, intensifying long-running persecution of the stateless minority group. In an ominous development, Muslim-Buddhist violence spread in March to central Myanmar, killing dozens more.

The government's emergency response has been slow and some fear the unrest could spiral.

"If the new government and opposition can't fashion an effective response to this violence that brings justice and accountability, then it seems likely the violence will escalate," said Frank Jannuzi, deputy executive director of Amnesty International USA.

"The risk here is that the military may step in and set back the reform process. That risk is very real."

A senior State Department official said the U.S. is gravely concerned about the violence and wants the government to make a broader effort to stem tensions before they flare up. But he creditsPresident Thein Sein for eventually issuing a message of tolerance and respect for religious differences — unprecedented for the past 50 years when sectarian tensions were dealt with through use of force.

Although there's no national-level organization of unrest, individuals and groups appear to be inciting the violence, said the official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject. He did not identify who they might be.

Priscilla Clapp, a former U.S. charge d'affaires in the former capital city of Yangon, visited Myanmar last month. She said the presence of outside provocateurs could be part of a campaign to strengthen the military's hand and keep it involved in maintaining order in the country.

The communal unrest has spawned a refugee crisis that is spilling beyond Myanmar's borders. Since the outbreak of violence in Rakhine state near Bangladesh last year, an estimated 13,000 Rohingyas have fled by sea, seeking refuge in Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia and other countries. Hundreds have drowned, and in some cases authorities have pushed back refugees from their shores or refused them humanitarian access.

Despite the drumbeat of bad news, the Obama administration remains upbeat about Myanmar, contending that the pace of change has exceeded expectations and that overall progress toward democracy is positive.

Critics, however, question whether, in the rush to reward progress, the U.S. has lost its leverage should Myanmar backtrack.

Walter Lohman, director of the Asia program at the conservative Heritage Foundation think tank, said the administration was right to normalize diplomatic relations but moved too quickly to suspend investment and trade sanctions.

There are unresolved ethnic conflicts, a constitution skewed in favor of the military and political prisoners still in detention. National elections in 2015 are widely viewed as key to consolidating reforms.

"We won't really know whether the U.S. going so far and so fast on sanctions was the right thing to do for at least a year or so yet," said Lohman, who recommended the U.S. set benchmarks Myanmar should meet for sanctions to be lifted entirely. "The military could still call this whole thing off if they want to."

Questions linger about whether elements within the military are acting independently of Thein Sein. Despite his order to stop fighting, Myanmar's army pressed an offensive against ethnic Kachin rebels that has displaced an estimated 70,000 people in the north.

"The army clearly wants to remain a strong force and there are probably divisions between the uniformed army and the ex-generals who run the government," Clapp said.

The senior U.S. official said Myanmar has yet to sever its military relationship with North Korea, which Thein Sein has committed to do, and the U.S. is continuing to raise the issue with the government.

Since the start of the policy of engagement with Myanmar — which reversed two decades of pressure and diplomatic isolation — a key U.S. goal has been to end North Korean weapon sales to Myanmar, which, if they are continuing, violate U.N. Security Council resolutions and could help pay for Pyongyang's nuclear and missile programs.

Yet the Obama administration appears to have decided that engaging the Myanmar military will be more productive than keeping it at arm's length. Myanmar was invited to observe U.S. military exercises in Thailand in February.

Aung Din, a U.S.-based activist and former political prisoner, views that as a seal of approval for an army still fighting its own citizens and committing atrocities. He said it would be better to get military chiefs in Indonesia and the Philippines — Southeast Asian nations that have shifted from authoritarian rule to democracy — to engage their Myanmar counterparts before the U.S. does.

He advocates more U.S. engagement with Myanmar's diverse ethnic minority groups, who have been fighting the military for decades and whose longstanding grievances need to be addressed for the country to achieve peace.

But Clapp, the former charge d'affaires, cautions there's only so much Washington can do to solve Myanmar's internal problems, including the Buddhist-Muslim unrest, beyond counseling what might be the best course of action.

"We can't get involved and stop it on the ground," she said. "It's their issue, it's their test." ( abcnews.com )

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Buddhist, Muslims from Myanmar brawl in Indonesia

Buddhist, Muslims from Myanmar brawl in Indonesia — Buddhist and Muslim asylum seekers from Myanmar brawled with rocks and knifes at an immigration detention center in Indonesia early Friday, leaving eight people dead and 15 injured, police said.

The fight broke out at the center in North Sumatra province, where more than 100 Rohingyamigrants — most intercepted off Indonesia's coast in rickety boats — and 11 illegal fishermen from Myanmar were being held together, said local police chief Endro Kiswanto.

He said witnesses told police the clash started after a Muslim Rohingya confronted a Buddhist fisherman about sectarian violence in their homeland. Insults were traded, and people began fighting with rocks and knifes.

Eight Buddhists were killed, and 15 Rohingya were injured. Three other Buddhists escaped unharmed, Kiswanto said.

All of the victims were rushed to a hospital in the provincial capital, Medan, about 23 kilometers (14 miles) south of Belawan.

"We are still investigating the incident, including how they got knifes," he said. "We will expedite their repatriation."

Sectarian violence erupted in central Myanmar last month when mobs of armed Buddhists torched Muslim-owned homes and shops. Dozens were killed and thousands, mostly Muslims, were forced to flee. ( Associated Press )

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How Myanmar's Buddhist-Muslim conflict has reached into Indonesia

How Myanmar's Buddhist-Muslim conflict has reached into Indonesia - In Indonesia, a brawl between Muslim and Buddhist detainees from Myanmar left eight dead today. Both sides are caught in a painful cycle of events.

In a severely overcrowded Indonesian detention center, a brawl broke out today between Muslims and Buddhists that left eight of the latter group dead.

Indonesia, an archipelago that straddles the equator, has long been a way-station for people fleeing troubles in their homelands. For decades, boats with Afghans or Iraqis hoping to make it to Australiahave washed up on its shores and their occupants have ended up spending months, and sometimes years, in detention here.

In this case, there's trouble much closer to home. In Myanmar(Burma), months of mostly Buddhist-instigated violence against the Rohingya Muslim minority have left tens of thousands homeless and hundreds dead. The country is in the middle of a transition process from a long military dictatorship to something resembling civilian rule, but that has meant more trouble, not less, for the Rohingyas. Ethnic-Burmese champions of the long struggle against military rule there, chief among them Aung San Suu Kyi, have largely avoided speaking out over the targeting of the Muslim minority, creating fears that recent spasms are just the beginning.

Thousands of Rohingyas have fled to neighboring Thailand, and hundreds at least have floated on down to Muslim-majority Indonesia in makeshift boats, setting the stage for today's violence.

The Associated Press reports from Belawan, the town in North Sumatra that houses the migrant detention camp, that the brawl erupted after an argument between a Rohingya Muslim preacher and a Buddhist fisherman at the camp about the recent attacks on Muslims in Myanmar.

The violence spiraled almost immediately, and the group of 11 Buddhists there were badly outnumbered by the roughly 100 Rohingyas who’ve arrived there in recent months.

Recent events in Myanmar have been a reminder that, while Buddhism has a peaceful glow around it in the minds of many people in the West, its adherents are capable of horrific violence, given the right conditions, as is just about any other group on the planet.

Events in Indonesia today, meanwhile, are a reminder that the world is not one of confessional divides alone. I expect that some Indonesian incompetence was in play in this case, but they're certainly not guilty of picking sides with their fellow “Muslims.” The three Buddhist survivors were quickly given medical care and segregated in new accommodations.

The deaths are of course the most tragic part of the story. But the AP report also mentions that the fishermen, poor as church mice, have been detained in Indonesia for nine months for illegally fishing in Indonesian territorial waters. That’s a long time in detention for the crime of trying to make a living.

The Rohingyas in that camp, meanwhile, have lost their homes and aren’t getting the welcome mat rolled out to them here in Indonesia. The country has a long track record of trying to avoid resettlement of refugees, whatever their religious beliefs, and that’s unlikely to change soon.

Both sides in this brawl are trapped in a painful cycle of events, with few good options – beyond peace and a little more prosperity coming to their homeland. ( Christian Science Monitor )

Blog : Luxurious | How Myanmar's Buddhist-Muslim conflict has reached into Indonesia

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Buddhist, Muslims from Myanmar clash in Indonesia

Buddhist, Muslims from Myanmar clash in Indonesia - Sectarian and ethnic tensions running high in Myanmar boiled over far outside the country's borders Friday, when Buddhist fishermen and Muslim asylum seekers from the country brawled with knives and rocks at an Indonesian immigration detention center, leaving eight dead and another 15 injured.

The melee broke out in North Sumatra province, where more than 100 Rohingya migrants — most intercepted off Indonesia's coast after fleeing their homeland in rickety boats — and 11 Buddhists accused of illegal fishing were being housed together, said local police chief Endro Kiswanto.

Indonesian police officers carry the body of an illegal migrant from Myanmar upon arrival at a hospital in Medan, North Sumatra, Indonesia Friday, April 5, 2013. Police said a violent brawl between Buddhist and Muslim asylum seekers from Mynamar in an immigration detention center in Belawan of North Sumatra early Friday leaving eight dead and 15 injured. (AP Photo/Binsar Bakkara) 

Indonesian police officers carry the body of an illegal migrant from Myanmar upon arrival at a hospital in Medan, North Sumatra, Indonesia Friday, April 5, 2013. Police said a violent brawl between Buddhist and Muslim asylum seekers from Mynamar in an immigration detention center in Belawan of North Sumatra early Friday leaving eight dead and 15 injured. (AP Photo/Binsar Bakkara)

Indonesian police officers carry the body of an illegal migrant from Myanmar upon arrival at a hospital in Medan, North Sumatra, Indonesia Friday, April 5, 2013. Police said a violent brawl between Buddhist and Muslim asylum seekers from Mynamar in an immigration detention center in Belawan of North Sumatra early Friday leaving eight dead and 15 injured. (AP Photo/Binsar Bakkara)

He said witnesses told police the clash started early Friday after a Rohingya Muslim cleric and a fisherman got into a heated debate about sectarian violence that erupted last month in central Myanmar when mobs of armed Buddhists torched Muslim-owned homes and shops, killing dozens and forcing thousands to flee.

The argument apparently started after the Rohingya migrants saw photos showing destruction caused by the recent violence, said Yusuf Umardani, detention centerchief. Insults were traded, and the cleric was allegedly attacked by a fisherman. When the cleric screamed, his friends jumped in to help. From there, the rumble broke out so quickly, security guards were too late to stop it.

"The violence took place so fast, and it was completely unexpected because they had been living peacefully here so far," Umardani said. "Most of the dead victims suffered severe head injuries. Apparently, they fought using anything that they could get — rocks, wood, chairs and knives."

Eight Buddhists were killed, and 15 Rohingya were injured. Three other Buddhists escaped unharmed, Kiswanto said.

Local police spokesman Col. Raden Heru Prakoso said 18 Rohingya detainees have been named as suspects.

"Our friends were covered in blood," surviving fisherman Win Thike Oo told an Associated Press photographer at the scene. "If we were there at the time, we would also be dead."

About 280 people are crammed into the overcrowded detention center — more than double its capacity. It is filled with a mix of mostly asylum seekers from different countries, including Afghanistan and Sri Lanka.

Boatloads of Rohingya have been washing up on Indonesia's shores following a wave of violence last year in western Myanmar, where they are considered illegal Muslim settlers from neighboring Bangladesh. Hundreds have been killed and more than 100,000 left homeless in clashes between ethnic Rakhine Buddhists and Rohingya.

The tensions have tested Myanmar's fledgling reformist government as it attempts to institute political and economic liberalization after nearly half a century of military rule.

"We actually don't understand about what is happening in my country," said survivor Oo, who has been detained for nine months at the center after being nabbed for illegal fishing in Indonesian waters. "We are only fishermen. We don't care about politics or conflict."

All of the victims from the detention center were rushed to a hospital in the provincial capital, Medan, about 23 kilometers (14 miles) south of the port town of Belawan. The three surviving fishermen have been moved to a separate building and hundreds of police have been deployed to secure the center. A forensics team was working to collect evidence and surveillance recordings were being reviewed.

The UN Refugee Agency issued a statement saying it was saddened by news of the deaths.

"UNHCR is calling for calm among the groups and urging the Indonesian authorities to take action to prevent further violence, including moving individuals into community housing as soon as possible," it said.

Maj. Zaw Htay, the director of the president's office in Myanmar, said the country's embassy in Jakarta has urged Indonesian authorities to investigate and punish those involved. ( Associated Press )

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Ovation for Pope Benedict at final public mass

Ovation for Pope Benedict at final public mass - A capacity crowd in St Peter's Basilica gave Pope Benedict a thunderous standing ovation on Wednesday at an emotional last public Mass before he resigns at the end of the month.

"Thank you. Now, let's return to prayer," the 85-year-old pontiff said, bringing an end to several minutes of applause that clearly moved him. In an unusual gesture, bishops took off their mitres in a sign of respect and a few of them wept.

One of the priests at the altar, which according to tradition rests above the tomb of St Peter, took out a handkerchief to dry his tears.

The Mass was moved to St Peter's from a venue in Rome so more people could attend. Hundreds of others waited outside.

Reuters/Reuters - Pope Benedict XVI attends Ash Wednesday mass at the Vatican February 13, 2013. Thousands of people are expected to gather in the Vatican for Pope Benedict's Ash Wednesday mass, which is expected to be his last before leaving office at the end of February. REUTERS/Alessandro Bianchi

Hours earlier in the Vatican's modern audience hall, a visibly moved Benedict tried to assure his worldwide flock, saying he was confident his decision to step down would not hurt the Church.

The Vatican, meanwhile, announced that a conclave to elect his successor would start sometime between March 15 and March 20, in keeping with Church rules about the timing of such gatherings after the papal see becomes vacant.

"Continue to pray for me, for the Church and for the future pope," he said in unscripted remarks at the start of his weekly general audience, his first public appearance since his shock decision on Monday that he will step down on February 28.

It was the first time Benedict, 85, who will retire to a convent inside the Vatican, exchanging the splendor of his 16th century Apostolic Palace for a sober modern residence, had uttered the words "future pope" in public.

Church officials are still so stunned by the move that the Vatican experts have yet to decide what his title will be and whether he will continue to wear the white of a pope, the red of a cardinal or the black of an ordinary priest.

His voice sounded strong at the audience but he was clearly moved and his eyes appeared to be watering as he reacted to the thunderous applause in the Vatican's vast audience hall, packed with more than 8,000 people.

In brief remarks in Italian that mirrored those he read in Latin to stunned cardinals on Monday he appeared to try to calm Catholics' fears of the unknown.

He message was that God would continue to guide the Church.

EXAMINATION OF CONSCIENCE

"I took this decision in full freedom for the good of the Church after praying for a long time and examining my conscience before God," he said.

He said he was "well aware of the gravity of such an act," but also aware that he no longer had the strength required to run the 1.2 billion member Roman Catholic Church, which has been beset by a string of scandals both in Rome and round the world.

Benedict said he was sustained by the "certainty that the Church belongs to Christ, who will never stop guiding it and caring for it" and suggested that the faithful should also feel comforted by this.

He said that he had "felt almost physically" the affection and kindness he had received since he announced the decision.

When Benedict resigned on Monday, the Vatican spokesman said the pontiff did not fear schism in the Church after his resignation.

Some 115 cardinals under the age of 80 will be eligible to enter a secret conclave to elect his successor.

Cardinals around the world have already begun informal consultations by phone and email to construct a profile of the man they think would be best suited to lead the Church in a period of continuing crisis.

The conservative Benedict has appointed more than half of the cardinals who will elect his successor so it is unlikely the new man will tamper with any teachings such as the ban on artificial birth control or women priests.

But many in the Church have been calling for the election of someone who they say will be a better listener to other opinions in the Church.

The likelihood that the next pope would be a younger man and perhaps a non-Italian, was increasing, particularly because of the many mishaps caused by Benedict's mostly Italian top aides.

Benedict has been faulted for putting too much power in the hands of his friend, Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone. Critics of Bertone, effectively the Vatican's chief administrator, said he should have prevented some papal mishaps and bureaucratic blunders.

ILL-SERVED POPE

"These scandals, these miscommunications, in many cases were caused by Pope Benedict's own top aides and I think a lot of Catholics around the world think that he was perhaps ill-served by some of the cardinals here," said John Thavis, author of a new book, The Vatican Diaries.

Benedict's papacy was rocked by crises over sex abuse of children by priests in Europe and the United States, most of which preceded his time in office but came to light during it.

His reign also saw Muslim anger after he compared Islam with violence. Jews were upset over rehabilitation of a Holocaust denier. During a scandal over the Church's business dealings, his butler was accused of leaking his private papers.

"When cardinals arrive here for the conclave ... they are going to have this on their mind, they're going to take a good hard look at how Pope Benedict was served, and I think many of them feel that the burden of the papacy that finally weighed so heavy on Benedict was caused in part by some of this in-fighting (among his administration)," Thavis told Reuters.

Vatican spokesman Father Federico Lombardi urged the faithful to remain confident in the Church and its future.

"Those who may feel a bit disorientated or stunned by this, or have a hard time understanding the Holy Father's decision should look at it in the context of faith and the certainty that Christ will support his Church," Lombardi said.

Lombardi said that on his last day in office, Benedict would receive cardinals in a farewell meeting and after February 28 his ring of office, used to seal official documents, would be destroyed just as if he had died. ( Reuters )

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